44 caliber black powder revolver made in italy

5 Best cap and ball black powder revolvers ever made :: Guns.com How we protect your privacy It appears from the pics that the nipples were removed at one point, are they all there and operable? Only the arrival of the .44 caliber 1860 Colt Army, a still lighter and more manageable arm, rendered the Dragoon obsolete in the early '60s. Metal black powder coated hardware. Traditions offers a wide variety of Black Powder Revolvers and Single Action Revolvers in different calibers, barrel length, grip choices, and finishes! Brass Frame, Blue 7.25 inch barrel, Wood Grips show very little wear. Antique 1820 double barrel shotgun, black powder, 44". Ma, Black leather belt with costume snake belt buckles. with the brass frames tend to be at the low end, while a steel 1939) Segno Rotondo Drop-Top Table, for EMU Group, Italy, 29 x 31.5 x 31.5 inches, dark grey-black powder coated steel, Vintage Gianfranco Ferre Jeans Skirt side wide Ruffle Made in Italy size 44Vintage Gianfranco Ferre Jeans Skirt side wide Ruffle Made in Italy size 44 THIS GIANFRANCO FERRE JEANS BLACK RUFFLED SKIRT I, HELMUT LANG long sleeve sheer button up shirt dress with drop waist in black. Lot 97: Italian Navy Model .44 cal. Black Powder Revolver - Invaluable I was unable to add your email address to the email list. To this gum a quick . 21 Black and White Cotton Star Pants, Size 44, PRADA Lightweight Convertible Black Jacket/Vest, Vintage Ungaro Black Dress and Vintage COCO Chanel Wool Cardigan, Fendi Handbag Shoulder Bag 2Way Peek-A-Boo Medium Black Leather FENDI Ladies 8BN290-3ZN-169-0397, GUCCI Gucci Clutch Bag GG Kaleido Supreme Black Men's Leather, FENDI Shoulder Bag Handbag Toujour Black Ladies, 1990s Gianfranco Ferre White, Black and Gold Asymmetric Silk Printed Dres, Vintage Saint Laurent Paris Black Knit Vest Dress, Size L, Jimmy Choo Women Men Leather Clutch Bag Black, Salvatore Ferragamo Bag Women's Shoulder Gancini Leather Black, Balenciaga Rudis 391571 Women's Leather Handbag Shoulder Bag Black, Chanel Shoulder Bag Coco Cocoon Black Nylon, Chanel CHANEL Bag Cambon Women's Tote Handbag Leather Black, Miu Miu Novelty CANAPA ASTRALE 5RM008 Women's Canvas Pouch Black Light Blue, This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. In addition, we reserve the right to impose a late charge of one and a half percent (1.5%) per month of the total purchase price if payment is not made in accordance with the conditions set forth herein. Weight: 1.84Kg. Information announced day of sale takes precedence over printed material. The auctioneer may continue to bid on behalf of the seller up to the amount of the reserve, either by placing consecutive bids or by placing bids in response to other bidders. CAL 44, barrel 9 inches. Condition Reports nor its consignor(s) makes any warranties or representations, express or implied with respect to such lots. 1847 Walker; 1848 Baby Dragoon; 1849 Pocket; 1851 Navy; Regulator 1873; Remington 1858 Army & Navy Schematic; Browning Colt Remington Savage / Stevens / Springfield / Fox. If we receive written bids on a particular lot for identical amounts, and these are the highest bids on the lot at the auction, it will be sold to the person whose written bid was received and accepted first. 44 Caliber Navy model, made in Italy, Black powder revolver Items under $1,000 are collated upon request. In addition, a defaulting purchaser will be deemed to have granted us a security interest in, and we may retain as collateral security for such purchaser's obligations to us, any property in our possession owned by such purchaser. Packing and Shipping S. *Estimated delivery dates - opens in a new window or tab include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Colt Army Model 1860 - Wikipedia For large items we are unable to ship in-house, we recommend: Only the arrival of the .44 caliber 1860 Colt Army, a still lighter and more manageable arm, rendered the Dragoon obsolete in the early '60s. BLUED FINISH, WOOD GRIPS, BRASS FRAME, 8" BARREL, 6 SHOT. 21K Items sold. V2-D1 Barrel Length: 12 Bore condition: Good Year Manufactured: 2014, Your email address will not be published. Buy a italian made .44 cal black powder pistol,brass frame,wood grips from liberty arms for sale by mikef79 on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 901614486 What is the value of a pietta Italy 44 black powder serial 224283? V2-D1. Since 2002, LiveAuctioneers has made exceptional items available for safe purchase in secure online auctions. At our option, payment will not be deemed to have been made in full until we have collected funds represented by checks, or in the case of bank or cashier's checks, we have confirmed their authenticity. Fllipietta Of Italy,44 Black Powder Revolver - 11460252. Collecting Purchases 1858 Remington will set you back around $600.00 +. 44 MADE IN ITALY) . The absence of any reference to the condition of a lot does not imply that the lot is in perfect condition or completely free from wear and tear, imperfections or the effects of aging. FFL Required for Transfer. We will use reasonable efforts to carry out online bids and do not accept liability for equipment failure, inability to access the Internet or software malfunctions related to the execution of online bids. Midi length. View Item in Catalog 1 / 1 Lot #364 (Sale Order: 365 of 371) Sold for: $115.00 to b****2 Meares Property Advisors, Inc (18742) Internet Premium : 15% See Special Terms for additional fees Location: Pelzer, SC Watch this Item Increment Table Get More Info Report this Item Convert Currency Serial number 09485. Terms: 13% buyer's premium. Price: $436. A prospective buyer must complete and sign a registration form and provide identification before bidding. $32.50 . What you got there is a Pietta model 1851 Confederate Navy .44. $150-$250, depending on condition and the exact Routing number of commercial bank of Ethiopia? Information announced day of sale takes precedence over printed material. All items must be removed by January 2nd 2pm after the sale unless other arrangements are made. It has a few areas of rust on the outside of the barrel as seen but looks to function find. check Cabelas for a new one. Bidding begins to close at 5pm CDT/6pmEST, Auction Preview: December 21st-26th 9am-5pm and December 28th-30th 9-5pm . If property is not picked up within the pick-up days following the sale, whether or not payment has been made, Kraft Auction Service LLC. The cylinder frame, cylinder, and octagon barrel are constructed of steel and blued. 36 Made in Italy". 35 inches x 44 inches x 10 inches, Two Handguns, consisting of a 19th c. double barrel breech loading percussion cap example with fold down triggers, and a wooden handle, bore diameter- 14mm; and a Spanish Jukar black powder muzzle loa, Reading lamp in chrome and matte black powder coated metal, with adjustable height, cantilevered arm, and hourglass-form double shade in the style of Stilnovo. (D50850) See Sold Price Sold 2017 ITALIAN BLACK POWDER HANDGUN AN ITALIAN 44 BLACK POWDER See Sold Price Sold 2016 UBERTI BLACK POWDER US 1847 WALKER Italy and then you've got your proof marks now I'll be referencing the other. Picture would help to identify the model. Colt 1851 Navy Parts & Schematic | Numrich - Gun Parts Corp Remington New Army Revolvers, three brass frames with one being the All items must be removed by Saturday 2pm unless prior arragnements are made. In addition to the hammer price, the buyer agrees to pay Kraft Auction Service LLC. Bison and two steel frames, and I paid $20.00 for a brass frame BALLY Jacket Liner, Made in Italy clothing, Vest, Up cycle Jacket Lin. We may require bank or other financial references. Cash, check, or credit payments for those invoices over $2500 with a 3% discount for cash or check payments. Very good bore and chambers, with light corrosion present. Black Powder Revolver Made in Italy. Whether youre looking for a set of Glocks, an impressive number of manufacturers, including B&T AG, Switzerland; Chiappa Firearms, Italy; Barrett Firearms, America, allows you to find the best option for your business to fulfil the specific needs. Includes holster. This realistically made reproduction pistol would make a great black powder revolver for Cowboy Action Shooting. Lyman Middlefield Conn - The Firearms Forum This realistically made reproduction pistol would make a great black powder revolver for Cowboy Action Shooting. Except as required by local law any warranty of any kind whatsoever is excluded by this paragraph. Used New; Trade In: $178.44: $186.02 . Some markings have faded. The Pietta 1858 is .44 caliber, and uses a single-action trigger. up well either. Lot # : 74e - ASM Black Powder .44 Cal Revolver. Made in Italy - HiBid.com BARREL for Euroarms of America Italy Replica .44 cal Navy Model Black Powder. Posts: 4,740. It can ship direct to the buyer. The Missouri River Hawken features a fast twist 1:24 .50 caliber barrel that is designed to give excellent performance from all modern sabot and high performance hunting projectiles. Accessories . He bought it "just because". 7-drawer upright file cabinet. Kraft Auction Service LLC. Guns This is the black powder mark and will be found only on black powder weapons. If you have any questions feel free to message is not responsible for the correctness of any statement of any kind concerning any lot, whether written or oral, nor for any other errors or omissions in description or for any faults or defects in any lot. Dimen, Ciabatti, Aldo (Italian, b. nor its consignor(s) makes any express or implied warranty or representation of any kind or nature with respect to merchantability, fitness for purpose, correctness of the catalogue or other description of the physical condition, size, quality, rarity, importance, medium, material, genuineness, attribution, provenance, period, culture, source, origin, exhibitions, literature or historical significance of any lot sold. Settlement day of auction. Kraft Auction Service LLC. Who is Jason crabb mother and where is she? FOR SALE or TRADE! UBERTI BLACK POWDER REVOLVER - COLT 1848 1st Model DRAGOON .44 The guns were developed in the 1960s by Robert Mainhardt and Art Biehl through their joint company MB Associates. If payment is declined, payment must be made the next day in U.S. dollars may be made with cash; credit card (Mastercard, Visa, Discover, American Express); bank check or cashier's check drawn on a U.S. bank; money order; or wire transfer unless other arrangements are made with Kraft Auction Service LLC. The lots listed in this catalogue will be offered by Kraft Auction Service LLC. TRADITIONS MUZZLELOADER MEDIUM ROAST COARSE GROUND COFFEE 12OZ. $319.99 Caliber: .44 Stock Color: Walnut Finish: Blued/Brass Product Details Pietta Model 1858 New Army .44-Caliber Black Powder Revolver replicates 1 of the most powerful and rugged single-action revolvers of its day. WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including lead, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer and reproductive harm. Compare Compare Now. Kraft Auction Service LLC Joined: Feb 2011. Any items not picked up on those days, will automatically be forfeited. The famous 1st, 2nd and 3rd Model Dragoons were produced from 1848 to 1863 as evolutions of the 1847 Walker Dragoon. The email address {0} has been subscribed to the email list. There I purchased my first firearm, a brass framed, 44 caliber version of the Colt Navy, for the princely sum of $40. Marked on inner layer of belt is marked BLUMARINE Made in Italy. The Italian walnuy grips are clean and have figural graining. Please, Copyright 2021 B.A.C.O., All Rights Reserved. Blue in very good. 10% buyers premium online. If you received a mailing from us, (a) your email address is either listed with us as someone who has expressly shared this address for the purpose of receiving information in the future ("opt-in"), or (b) you have registered or purchased or otherwise have an existing relationship with us. Know your state laws prior to bidding. What is the value of 44 cal Asm pistol made in Italy? Buy 44 Caliber Navy model, made in Italy, Black powder revolver : GunBroker is the largest seller of Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols Black Powder & Muzzleloaders All: 973455580. . AN ARMI SAN MARCO pistol is currently worth an average price of $286.19 new and $274.52 used . at gun shows at around $150.00 for a good used one to $300.00 for a This pistol was given to me by my Grandfather after he had passed away. engraved with a Indian and Texas Rangers scene. Title passes upon the fall of the auctioneer's hammer to the highest acknowledged bidder subject to the Conditions of Sale set forth herein, and the bidder assumes full risk and responsibility. The lower right face of the octagonal barrel says, "A.S.M. You have not registered for this auction. Neither Kraft Auction Service LLC. Uberti 1849 Pocket Case Hardened/Blued 31 . SKU: FR186012. Larry Fisher - 574-298-8909, Auction Terms & Conditions Auction Terms & Conditions Auction Terms & Conditions General Terms: Cash, all major credit cards, or good check with positive ID. Measures laying flat 18 bust, 18 waist, 20 hips, l. Gucci belt with double G buckle, in black leather, 44.50"l (including buckle), gold tone buckle 2.50"h x 2.75"w, maker marked Gucci Made in Italy, serial number 114984. shall not be liable for any amount in excess of that paid by the purchaser. a handling charge of $50 for any check dishonored by the drawee. CA Officers Take Black Powder Gun from Gang Member Black Powder Revolvers - Deer Creek Products These telephone bids may be recorded at the discretion of Kraft Auction Service LLC. Vintage Spain 58 Cal. Mfg. Taylors & Company conversion cylinders are made from certified, . Once Kraft Auction Service LLC. 249.6 BLACK POWDER HAND GUN "PISTOL" 44 CALIBER, MADE IN ITALY. Black Powder Revolver Pistols | Shop All Models - Muzzle-Loaders.com --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------. When making a bid, a bidder is accepting personal liability to pay the purchase price, including the buyer's premium, all applicable taxes and all other applicable charges, unless it has been explicitly agreed upon in writing with Kraft Auction Service LLC before the commencement of the sale that the bidder is acting as agent on behalf of an identified third party acceptable to Kraft Auction Service LLC., and that Kraft Auction Service LLC. And then on the other side piano made in. No engraving on the brass or wood. Requires Final Polishing) 1 Backstrap 2 Barrel 3 Barrel Wedge Assembly 4 Bolt 5 Bolt Spring Screw 6 Cylinder 8 Grip 9 Hammer 10 Hand Assembly 11 Loading Lever Latch 12 Loading Lever In the absence of a bid at that level, the auctioneer may proceed backwards at his or her discretion until a bid is recognized, and then continue up from that amount. View sold price and similar items: Italian Navy Model .44 cal. We will never share, sell, or rent individual personal information with anyone without your advance permission or unless ordered by a court of law. Guns Pistols Muzzleloading Modern Replica Pistols perc italian made . $299.99. for example $500, but the same gun with a bad or rusted bore may Pietta Model 1858 New Army .44-Caliber Black Powder Revolver Pietta Model 1858 New Army .44-Caliber Black Powder Revolver . Traditions 1851 Colt Navy Revolver, .44 Cal. Why did you receive an email from us? FFL Required for Transfer. 16520, CIRCA 2007 Movement :Automatic, cal. Online Bids Buy ASM BLACK POWDER 44 WITH HOLSTER: GunBroker is the largest seller of Revolvers Pistols Guns & Firearms All: 970364841 . details in the search and see what is selling and for how much. Any ideas on the value? 1858 Buffalo Bill Centennial Materials: Blue Steel Frame and B/S, Brass T/G Caliber: .44 Starting Price You will not be able to bid in this auction without registering. Successful Bid The auctioneer may open the bidding on any lot below the reserve by placing a bid on behalf of the seller. .44 Black Powder Pistols (12 Products) Sort By: Cimarron CA086 3rd Model Dragoon 7.5" FS Walnut 1 Review Out of stock View Details Traditions R496496 1858 Black Powder Revolver .44 Cal 12" Barrel Brass and Walnut Finish - No FFL Required Out of stock View Details Cimarron CA020 Walker Dragoon US Model 1847 44CAL 9 Revolver Having appeared for the first time back in middle centuries as large and heavy hand cannons and extremely slow in usage flintlocks, handguns grew into one of the most popular kinds of weapons, especially for self-defence purposes. i have a 44 caliber black powder only pistol, made in Italy, It was the Top Overall prize at a shoot in NM about 1993. The 12 month average price is $290.50 new and $284.87 used. Measures approximately 22" in length and wheels are approximately 12" in diameter. Need Some Help With A Sm Black Powder Only 44 Cal. Is It A Replica my son beat me in the shoot-off. All items must be picked up and removed before Saturday 2pm unless prior arrangments are made. All items must be picked up and removed before Staurday 2pm unless prior arrangments are made. black powder cannon. The default caliber for pistols is 9mm, adopted after the Second World War. FIE black powder pistol - The Firing Line Forums Revolver is marked "BLACK POWDER ONLY 44 CAL., FLLIPIETTA- MADE IN ITALY". Payment Prospective buyers are strongly advised to personally examine any property in which they are interested before the auction takes place.. All lots are sold AS IS and without recourse and neither Kraft Auction Service LLC. deerfarmer92 12 years ago Size 44. 7% Indiana sales tax. THE BUTT HAS A SERIAL NUMBER E45436 IT DOESNT SAY WHO MAKES IT IT DOES HAVE SOME MARKS ON THE BOTTOM IN FRONT OF THE TRIGGER (BH , PN WITH A STAR ABOVE IT AND TWO CROSSED GUNS WITH A STAR ABOVE IT. EXCELLENT CONDITION Black Powder .44 caliber revolver, Made by; FLLIPIETTA of ITALY. Made in Italy, 2 Day OLO Walkerton Farm & Equipment Consignment Auction, Tuesday December 29th and Wednesday December 30th $475.99. List of 24 Pistols made in Italy, Italian made Pistols from The gun is a good shooter but the hammer comes down solid on the nipples, enough that the hammer isn't fully down. (D50850). .44 Cal Black powder revolver, made in Italy, Re: .44 Cal Black powder revolver, made in Italy, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Fisher Auctions What is the reflection of the story of princess urduja? I have a .36 caliber that is similar to yours. Thanks for the info on marking, however I have .50 cal Italian made muzzleloader with out any manufaturer name. Black Powder Revolver from Matthew Bullock Auctioneers on May 6, 0121 9:00 AM CDT. The Armi San Marco brand is not as highly valued as the Uberti Black Powder .44 Revolver Loading Stand with Teardrop Capper, Nipples & Cleaning. is it a Ask an Expert General Questions Firearm Questions AFTER THE SALE Patterned with primarily neutral tones alongside rich mustard yellow and black hues. The auctioneer has the right at his or her absolute and sole discretion to refuse any bid, to advance the bidding in such a manner as he or she may decide, to withdraw any lot, and in the case of error or dispute, and whether during or after the sale, to determine the successful bidder, to continue the bidding, to cancel the sale or to reoffer and resell the item in dispute. on Jan 16, 2016. about 30 years ago and the rest I got within the last two years to Pietta Model 1860 Colt Army Brass 44 Caliber Black Powder Italy SAA I MOWREY 58 CAL BLACK POWDER PERCUSSION MUSKET, #2480. I couldn't identify the makers mark although it does have Italian markings. and with black powder the bore is king. 6 round cylinder. The image details that it was a replica Model 1858 New Army .44-caliber cap-and-ball revolver of the kind made by a number of Italian firms, chiefly for the collector market. Detailed seller ratings. In the event of a dispute between bidders, the auctioneer has final discretion to determine the successful bidder or to reoffer the lot in dispute. If any part of these Conditions of Sale is found by any court to be invalid, illegal or unenforceable, that part shall be discounted and the rest of the conditions shall continue to be valid to the fullest extent permitted by law. (No, I didn't win it. Credit cards will be run after the auction ends for payment. See American Western Arms Inc. listing. Quick View Add to Cart . It also has the engravings on the barrel stating: .44 cal Navy Model - Made In Italy and on other side of barrel is engraved EXCAM and underneath has Black Powder Only. Melting lead and casting lead objects will expose you and others in the area to lead, which has been found in the state of California to cause birth defects, other reproductive harm, and cancer. Flash Hole & Primer Pocket Uniformers & Acc. LENGTH 40", Antique Wood 7-Drawer Printers File Cabinet. Its a great piece of history. new one and even up to $600 + on a fancy engraved one. Day 2 - Wednesday December 30th Pietta 1858 Remington Black Powder Revolver | Cabela's Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms or handling ammunition may result in exposure to lead and other substances that have been found in the state of California to cause birth defects, reproductive harm, and other serious physical injuries. and its consignor(s) make no warranty or representation, express or implied, that the purchaser will acquire any copyright or reproduction rights to any lot sold. Not responsible for accidents or items after sold. WE DO NOT REFUND BUYERS FOR ITEMS BECAUSE SHIPPING WAS TO EXPENSIVE. Navy Arms 1858 Remington. Made By - Graybeard Outdoors Possibly synthetic material. Top 9 cheap Black Powder - Revolvers - Outdoorlip.com This was my father in laws gun and I think he fired six rounds through it. the exact model and condition, they range from $125 and up. Traditions NitroFire Blend Dark Roast Coarse Ground Coffee 12oz. It has the proof marking date BA with the other two proof marks. Black Powder Rifles Civil War Muskets Sharps Models Percussion Rifles Flintlock Rifles Accessories. Not responsible for accidents or items after sold. 44. 100% Positive Feedback. Black Powder only Cal. .44 Cal Black powder revolver, made in Italy - 24hourcampfire S. F.A.P. Arched 3 panel folding screen with handles. Runner-up for best overall black powder revolver. Left hand twist. Pietta Black Powder Revolver. Is the singer Avant and R Kelly brothers? Overview . Telephone Bids *Caliber, Barrel Length, Generations, Sub Models may all affect item price. 1851 Navy Revolver .36 Cal Brass FR1851136, Reb Confederates Revolver .44 cal FR185115, Spiller and Burr Revolver .36 cal FR18625, 1851 Navy Engraved .44 Cal Black Powder Revolver, 1851 Navy Engraved .44 Cal Nickel Black Powder Revolver, 1860 Army Engraved Black Powder Revolver .44 cal Blued, 1851 Navy Black Powder Revolver Redi-Pak .44 Cal, Wildcard .36 Caliber Black Powder Revolver, 1858 Army Black Powder Revolver Redi-Pak .44 Cal, 1860 Army Black Powder Revolver Redi-Pak .44 Cal, US Marshal Logo .36 Caliber Black Powder Revolver, 1851 NAVY REVOLVER .36 CAL BRASS FR1851236, Copyright 2023 - Traditions Performance Firearms. Brass trigger guard. This listing is for a Pietta Colt Model 1860 Army 44 Caliber Revolver Serial Number 15326 Made in Italy. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. . Italian made *F.LLI PIETTA*44 CAL BLACK POWDER REVOLVER. SER.#438453 Armi San Marco Black Powder Revolvers Expand/Collapse All Categories. FABBRICA ARMI F.LLI PIETTA DI PIETTA GIUSEPPE EC. .44 Black Powder Pistols For Sale at Classic Firearms Hammer is steel with a "V" cut for a sight. ( but there is no number ) left side of barrel - model 1860 army 44 cal Any and all help very much appreciated , thank you M855 Green Tip AR-10 80% lower receivers Brand: SE Tactical 3 for $285 5.56x45mm 62 Gr M855 SS109 FMJ Brand: American Defense Techechnologies Caliber: 5.56 NATO 18.5 Million - Ready Stock- SS109 AR-10 80% lower receivers Brand: SE Tactical 3 for $285 BRIXIA SHOTGUNS SRL Looking for a dealer If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of pistols, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Lot 142: Fllipietta 44 Cal Italy made black powder 6 shooter revolver Select Subject. Kraft Auction Service LLC. Previous manufacturer located in Gardone, Italy, acquired by American Western Arms, Inc. in 2000 and reorganized as American Western Arms, Italia. All wood with plank construction. Best Black Powder Revolvers - 2022 Complete Review - Gun Mann Revolver type : Double Action Caliber : 44 Magnum F.A.P. View full details . Best Budget Option. View Item in Catalog Lot #5355 (Sale Order: 354 of 547) Sold for: $210.00 to onsite . The online buyers must pay the entire amount due (including the hammer price, buyer's premium, all applicable taxes and other charges) immediately at the conclusion of the sale. Your bid must adhere to the bid increment schedule. Non Payment $15.50 + $9.40 shipping. Rifles Black Powder | Italian Firearms Group Black Powder Revolvers | Uberti We respect your time and attention by controlling the frequency of our mailings. The class is divided into two main categories: semi-automatic,automatic andbreak-action and single shot pistols. Black powder coated steel tubular frame with a black vinyl seat, originally designedfor London's Groucho club (28" seat Ht., 35" o, Cosmograph Daytona, Ref. The Remington Model 1858 was one of the most powerful and rugged single-action revolvers of its day. Make sure your search is specific enough to get the correct value.